Dermatology Institute Has Plans For New Tampa

Dermatology Site
The land adjacent to the Legacy at Highwoods Preserve has been purchased by Dr. Debra Shelby, who plans to build a state-of-the-art dermatology practice and school at the site shown in red.

On a visit to Singapore’s acclaimed National Skin Centre in 2012, where she was invited to lecture the nursing staff and meet with the medical staff, Dr. Debra Shelby, Doctor of Nursing Practice (DNP) and Ph.D., witnessed a state-of-the-art, comprehensive dermatology facility that treats 1,000 patients a day, while also serving as a home for continuing education for doctors, new technologies and research studies.

Making a place like that became one of her dreams, and soon, it may become a reality right here in New Tampa.

Shelby, a Tampa Palms resident, is the CEO and Clinical Director for Florida Specialty Medical Services (FSMS), LLC, located on Amberly Dr. in Tampa Palms, where she currently sees patients.

She will soon begin building a new facility, to be called the National Institute for Dermatology: Dermatology Education, on the corner of Highwoods Preserve Pkwy. and New Tampa Blvd. in West Meadows.

“I wasn’t even aware the property was for sale,’’ said Shelby. “I had been looking around the New Tampa area and didn’t find anything I really liked, and this was right in front of me the whole time. It’s a beautiful piece of property.”

The 7-acre property, most of it conservation and wetlands, with 2.5 acres of usable land, has been dormant for years, following a failed attempt to build a charter school on the site in 2012. Sold for $300,000, it was originally zoned for three 2,500-sq.-ft. offices or medical buildings. Shelby said an architect is currently “reconfiguring” that plan to instead include just one 8,000-sq.-ft. building, “with a nice flow.”

Dermatology Care From Start To Finish

Board-certified in dermatology (DNC) through the Dermatology Nursing Association, Shelby’s plan is to build and staff with qualified doctors a facility modeled after the one she visited in Singapore, offering a variety of services, including things like a pharmacy, a shop with sun protective clothing, laser-care, skin cancer treatments, aesthetics as well as a training center for doctors.

The project is currently in permitting.

“It will be a unique concept,’’ Shelby said. “We’re very excited about it.”

Dr. Debra Shelby has big plans for dermatology care.
Dr. Debra Shelby has big plans for dermatology care.

Shelby, who has a number of specialties but says she has a love for geriatric dermatology, developed the country’s first Doctorate of Nursing Practice (DNP) Dermatology Residency at USF and became the first resident to ever complete the program in 2008, and has learned from the best doctors while serving as a Perioperative Clinical Specialist at the Moffitt Cancer Center on the USF Tampa campus.

Shelby spent 15 years at a practice, mostly in Hudson, at the Center for Dermatology, before scaling back to part-time while she founded FSMS, LLC, which provides dermatology care and education.

Shelby visits most of her patients at senior-assisted facilities.

“It was always my vision to do this, but being part of a practice, it wasn’t something I could make come to fruition,” she said.

Shelby, who says she will start law school in January to study elder care health policy, said she has received so many requests from patients for a land-based facility to visit, creating one in New Tampa only made sense. To that end, the National Institute for Dermatology will be located right next to the Legacy at Highwoods Preserve assisted living facility.

Florida Specialty Medical Services, LLC, is located at 15243 Amberly Dr. For more information, visit FSMSLLC.com, or call 765-0688.

Massage Franchise Set To Open In New Tampa Center

Massage Green Spa, a national spa chain, is opening a new location in the Publix-anchored New Tampa Center plaza at the site formerly occupied by Dine or Dash and La Cubanita Café.

Live Oak resident Todd Phillips is one of the owners. He says he hopes to have the new spa open by mid-June or early-July.

Massage Green Spa bills itself as an affordable luxury spa offering massage therapy, skin care, nail care and “internal care with the latest technology of our infrared saunas.” Phillips says infrared saunas are “all the rage in California” because they offer all the health benefits of a sauna without the stifling heat and atmosphere of traditional saunas. “A little bit more modern,’’ Phillips said, “with greater effect.”

For additional information, visit MassageGreenSpa.com.

 

Hargreaves III Is Headed To The NFL, But Where?

Photo courtesy of Tampa Bay Times
Photo courtesy of Tampa Bay Times

The best high school football player in New Tampa history is about to become the highest-drafted National Football League (NFL) player in New Tampa history.

Former Paul R. Wharton High star defensive back Vernon Hargreaves III, who went on to a standout career at the University of Florida in Gainesville, is expected to be taken in the first round of the NFL Draft, which will pick the first round on Thursday, April 28, beginning at 8 p.m.

Hargreaves will attend the draft, which runs through April 30 and is being held at Roosevelt University’s Auditorium Theatre in Chicago.

While other Wildcats football grads have flirted with the NFL (linebacker Larry Edwards was signed as an undrafted free agent by the Buffalo Bills in 2007, and linebacker Josh Jones played in some preseason games for Jacksonville in 2012), none has had the impact Hargreaves is expected to.

According to NFL.com’s analysis, “With top-notch ball skills and exceptional instincts that drew praise from Alabama’s Nick Saban, Hargreaves possesses the football makeup to become a Pro Bowl corner.”

Hargreaves — whose sister Chanelle graduates this spring from Wharton after a sterling volleyball career and who also will attend Florida — grew up in Miami and Greenville, NC, where his dad Vernon II was an assistant football coach at the University of Miami Hurricanes and at East Carolina University, respectively.

In 2010, Hargreaves II took a job at the University of South Florida in Tampa, eventually enrolling his son at Wharton.

Hargreaves did not play football until high school, but was clearly a natural and excelled from the start.

According to various NFL draft experts and analysts, as well as most mock drafts, Hargreaves should be a top-10 pick as arguably the purest cornerback in the draft (although FSU safety Jalen Ramsey is rated a notch higher on most boards). ESPN draft guru Mel Kiper, in one of his most recent mock drafts, has Hargreaves going No. 14 overall to the Oakland Raiders.

“Hargreaves lacks some measurables, but the tape doesn’t lie,” Kiper wrote, alluding to the one knock on the former Wildcat — his 5-foot-11, 207-pound frame. That did not stop Hargreaves, though, from earning all-Southeastern Conference honors every year as a Gator, nor does the former Wildcat see that as a negative.

“Playing in the SEC, I’ve covered Amari Cooper (currently with the Oakland Raiders), I’ve covered Odell Beckham (New York Giants), Jarvis Landry (Miami Dolphins) and Kelvin Benjamin (Carolina Panthers),’’ Hargreaves said at the NFL Draft Combine last month. “You gotta compete. At the end of the day, it’s all about competing. Height, size, that doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, if you can play ball you can play ball.”

Hargreaves can certainly play ball. He was an All-State pick every season he played at Wharton, and excelled everywhere coach David Mitchell put him. On special teams, he returned kicks when called on and blocked a handful of field goals and extra point attempts. He also filled in at quarterback and wide receiver, rushing for 237 yards and seven touchdowns as a junior and adding 313 yards and three more touchdowns receiving that same year.

“He could do it all,’’ Mitchell said.

It was as a lockdown corner, however, that Hargreaves achieved fame, with nine career high school interceptions and more than 203 tackles while twice earning All-American honors, winning two national titles on Team Tampa in 7-on-7 and earning MVP honors as a senior at the prestigious Under-Armour All-America Game in St. Petersburg.

Hargreaves was a freshman starter at Florida, and a sensation his first two seasons. He proclaimed himself to be the best cornerback in the country prior to his junior season, and went out and totaled 33 tackles, 4 interceptions and 4 passes defended.

So, where will Hargreaves, who is lauded for his quick-twitch athleticism, aggressiveness and 39-inch vertical jump allowing him to get his hands on passes intended for taller wide receivers, be drafted?

While Kiper (and CBSSports.com) has him at No. 14 in mock drafts, Kiper also said on a national conference call that Hargreaves could be in the mix to go to the Baltimore Ravens at No. 6.

Drafttek.com says Hargreaves will be taken 8th by the Philadelphia Eagles, WalterFootball.com has him going No. 10 to the New York Giants, and SBNation.com has the Chicago Bears taking him at No. 11.

Chances are, however, that local fans of Hargreaves are hoping that NFL.com analyst Charles Davis and Sports Illustrated’s Don Banks are correct:

They both have Hargreaves lasting until the No. 9 pick, where the hometown Tampa Bay Buccaneers could address a glaring need and snatch up the local kid.

The NFL Draft will air live on the NFL Network, with Round 1 on Apr. 28, 8 p.m. Rounds 2-3 will be held Apr. 29, and rounds 4-7 will be held Apr. 30.

 

Serenity & 55-plus Community To Meadow Pointe

Anand Vihar 55-plus community
Anand Vihar is already transitioning in preparation for construction in Meadow Pointe, which will include a 17,000-sq.-ft. clubhouse

When good friends and Tampa Bay-area doctors Krishna Nallamshetty M.D., and Seenu Sanka, M.D., envisioned a place their parents could live their later years in, they imagined a calm and peaceful setting. People in a 55-plus community with shared interests, an active and vibrant community with trails to walk.

Fitness rooms to exercise in, places where they could worship and meditate and partake in the vegetarian lifestyle they have enjoyed their entire lives.

Beginning in June, that’s exactly what the two physicians plan to build in Wesley Chapel’s Meadow Pointe community.

Anand Vihar, which means “Blissful Living” (according to its website), promises to be the premier 55-plus community in Tampa Bay. It will be one of the only 55-plus adult communities in Wesley Chapel.

It will be built on a 50-acre site on Mansfield Blvd., less than 100 yards north of where the road currently dead ends (as we reported about again last issue) and is surrounded by large conservation and ponds.

55-Plus Community Coming Together

Drs. Nallamshetty and Sanka, who searched for the right place for two years before enlisting the help of another friend, Santosh Govindaraju, the CEO of Convergent Capital Partners (CCP), hope to break ground on Anand Vihar this summer.

Eric Isenbergh, the CEO of Oxford Homes, has joined the team as the property’s builder.

“I think it’s a phenomenal area to be in,’’ said Govindaraju, whose company focuses on development and repositioning of commercial real estate. He said CCP has put more than half a billion dollars into redeveloping places like Carrollwood Golf Club (previously Emerald Green Golf & Country Club) and a number of hotels and commercial properties. This is the company’s first foray into Wesley Chapel.

Govindaraju said he was able to secure a great price for the property. The deed, he says, will show the partners paid $25,000 for the land itself, but because the previous owners chose not to pay taxes on it — the recession stalled a previous project on the property — the new owners had to pay off liens on 87 lots, at a cost of $11,000 per lot.

According to Govindaraju, multiple banks owned parts of the parcel, but none had any interest in developing it and allowed it go delinquent.

Anand Vihar“It was a very fragmented ownership,’’ he said. “We diligently put it back together.”

The roads, parking areas, utilities and detention ponds were all constructed in 2006, after the previous owners had received approval for 330 townhomes and condos.

Three of the buildings in the southeast portion of the project were constructed, with 24 apartments that currently have residents and eight townhomes that don’t, but any further development came to a halt.

The existing buildings and roads will remain, with a new one planned near Anand Vihar’s soon-to-be-built, 17,000-sq-ft clubhouse. CCP plans to invest $5 million into the 55-plus community, building 280 units and incorporating more green space.

“We are very excited,’’ Govindaraju said. “There’s so many great things happening in this area. We want to contribute to the success at Meadow Pointe by creating more upscale opportunities, and increase the value of them by investing more in these properties.”

Although the project appears to be targeting the existing Indian community in our area, Govindaraju says it’s more about a lifestyle than people of any particular origin.

“We will be targeting more of a healthy living lifestyle,’’ Govindaraju says, noting that the Anand Vihar clubhouse will have an exclusively vegetarian kitchen (non-vegetarian meals will be catered on a weekly basis), a yoga room, a multi-faith prayer and meditation room and a theater room to watch the latest Bollywood (and other) movies.

“We will also have a full-time activities director, and I think that will also set us apart,’’ Govindaraju says.

Anand Vihar already has 30 reservations, he added.

For more information, visit AnandViharTampa.com, or call 534-4127.

la Pink Boutique Caters To Local Fashionistas

la Pink Boutique owner Amy Crumpton
la Pink Boutique owner Amy Crumpton

Busy traffic roars past on Bruce B. Downs (BBD) Blvd. in New Tampa and customers coming to shop or dine at the The Walk at Highwoods Preserve shopping center just off Highwoods Preserve Dr. pull in and out of parking spots. Step inside la Pink Boutique, however, and you’re transported to another world.

Frank Sinatra croons “New York, New York” softly, and aromatic candles scent the air. Beside a fashion book opened to photos of Audrey Hepburn is a framed Oscar Wilde quote: “One should either be a work of art or wear a work of art.”

Visiting la Pink is nothing like shopping in a mall store — it’s more like browsing through the eclectic and whimsical home of a friend with exquisite taste.

Welcome to Amy Crumpton’s little kingdom, the fashionista destination that pays homage to Crumpton’s favorite color — every hue of rose, blush, fuchsia and magenta imaginable (as well as other colors, too).

“It’s my little happy place,” says Crumpton from her office, with its vintage desk and full set of the popular children’s book series, Pinkalicious. “I’m still a little girl.”

While she’s perfectly turned out and looks ready for a brisk day at work, Crumpton also exudes the companionable air of one who’s up for a cozy chat. Her personality may say a lot about the long-standing success of this boutique, which mixes exclusive merchandise with affordability and manages to draw customers despite the continual growth of nearby chain store and mall destinations.

la Pink Boutique will be 11 years old in May, and has been in the same location (in the outparcel building that also is home to Men’s Wearhouse) all these years, although it has doubled in size since its opening.

The boutique’s origins lie in a shoe shop for children that a friend of Crumpton’s invited her to join in running in Tampa Palms. At the time, Crumpton was a young mom who was working in accounts receivable for Crumpton Welding Supply, owned by her husband’s family, since graduating in 1990 with a Bachelor of Science (B.S.) degree in management from the University of Tampa.

The two ran the shoe shop for a year, and then they decided to open a boutique (la Pink) instead. They worked together for five years, before Crumpton became the sole owner in 2010.

Today, la Pink consists of two large rooms artfully arranged with a carefully curated collection of clothes, accessories, shoes and jewelry. The range of styles and looks in the store mean that everyone from Crumpton’s college-age daughter to her own mother can find something they like.

While the items are carefully sourced, well-structured and well-made, Crumpton also is proud of the reasonable and generous selection of items throughout her showroom.

Brand Names For Boutique Shoppers

Clothes lines at la Pink include KUT from the Kloth Denim, Jude Connally, Allen, Escapada, Isle and Tyler Boe.

Bourbon and Boweties
la Pink has a wide array of chic items, such as dazzling bracelets from Bourbon and Boweties.

One brand that la Pink was the first boutique to feature is Lutz-based Tees by Tina, a line of super comfy and flattering tees, leggings, camis and other casual fashions.

A charm bar by Moon & Lola is one popular jewelry line, as is Bourbon and Boweties, a line of bracelets from a Brandon designer who fashions dazzling stones picked up from worldwide travels into unique, handmade “arm candy.”

Shoe lines include the playful Oka B as well as Lindsay Phillips, a Clearwater-based line of shoes featuring interchangeable snaps to change the look of the shoe to match an outfit — or a mood.

KUT from the Kloth Denim
Stylish collections from KUT from the Kloth Denim are also featured at la Pink Boutique.

Those looking for a thoughtful gift might find something pleasant from the line of carefully selected fragrances and body luxuries, such as Tyler candles, Lollia bath products, Tokyomilk fragrances and cosmetics and Pure factory natural lotions and skin repair products.

There’s even the tongue-in-cheek “Poo Pourri,” a line of deodorant bathroom spritzes.

“It takes a while to learn your customers,” says Crumpton. “You have to understand that you can’t have everything for everyone. But I try my hardest! You have to stay true to who stays true to you.”

Boutique Product Lines That Give Back

Giving back also is a priority for Crumpton, and she tries to stock products that do more than make a profit. 31 bits, for example, is a company that sells beautiful necklaces and bracelets made by women in Uganda to help them make a living. Other brands have helped send Thai children to school and set up water purification systems in Haiti. And, that philosophy permeates more than just the products.

“There’s a lot of therapy that happens here,” says Crumpton. “I always tell people, ‘You don’t have to come in and buy something. You can just come in and talk.’ Conversations I’ve had with people in here have gotten me through situations in life.”

Her employees too are not simply hires; they are people Crumpton invited into the business because of a personal connection she felt with them. Judi Kusha is a neighbor; Lori Hairston was actually a customer with whom Crumpton got along so well that she asked for her number and told her she’d call when she had an opening. That was nine years ago.

The newest hire is Emily Wingate, a 23-year-old University of South Florida student who walked in a year ago to buy a present for a friend and so moved Crumpton by her personal story and dedication to her family that Crumpton felt compelled to hire her, even though there was no clear position available at the time.

Crumpton says Wingate has since been an indispensable part of the team, setting up not only la Pink’s website, but also the boutique’s Instagram, twitter, Facebook and Pinterest sites.

“This is a team,” says Crumpton. “We get each other. There’s no drama.”

Customer Anjali Gandhi agrees, saying, “la Pink is my favorite place to shop!! Love the clothes. Judi, Lori, and Amy are awesome!

la Pink Boutique is located at 18035 Highwoods Preserve Pkwy. and is open Mon.-Fri., 10 a.m.-6 p.m. and 10 a.m.-5 p.m. on Sat. For info, visit laPinkonline.com, visit the store on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or Pinterest, call 972-2862 or see the ad on pg. 16 of this issue.

Wesley Chapel Borders To Be Defined By April?

Pasco County planner Matt Armstrong and Wesley Chapel borders
Pasco County planner Matt Armstrong hopes to settle the debate over Wesley Chapel borders.

Following presentations last month by both the Greater Wesley Chapel (WCCC) and Central Pasco (CPCC) Chambers of Commerce, the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners (BCC) could be set Wesley Chapel borders with Lutz/Land O’Lakes that ultimately should finally settle a long-simmering dispute at the BCC’s monthly meeting on Tuesday, April 26.

The commissioners are expected to vote on a recommendation from Pasco planners on definitive borders between the two Census Designated Places (Wesley Chapel and Land O’Lakes/Lutz together are both CDPs) during the meeting at the West Pasco Government Center Board Room in New Port Richey.

Until then, county planners and administrators are poring over a stack of documents from each side — and even getting some help from the folks at Google maps —interpreting where those borders should be.

“We are looking to establish a city boundary by legislative action,’’ said Matt Armstrong, the county’s executive planner. “None of these areas that are Census Designated Places have that. That’s some of the reason people have struggled with this.”

After separate meetings with the two groups last month, Armstrong said representatives from both areas will meet with each other in the next few weeks, with the county’s planning department serving as the moderator.

“Ultimately, we will be bringing a report to the Board of County Commissioners with a recommendation on what we think the boundaries will be,’’ Armstrong says. “The Board can hear public comment, and then we will be asking them to establish the borders.”

When broken down, the primary dispute seems to be over the slice of land between Wesley Chapel Blvd. and I-75 in the Cypress Creek Town Center Development of Regional Impact (DRI), which has been exacerbated recently by the steady business development in the area.

Armstrong said he was at one recent border meeting where a representative from one of the new businesses on the east side of Wesley Chapel Blvd. said they were happy to “be here in Lutz.”

But, take a look at the web page for Culver’s, which calls its restaurant on E. Bearss Ave. in Tampa “Culver’s of Tampa,” its restaurant in Largo “Culver’s of Largo,” and its restaurant in Port Richey “Culver’s of Port Richey.” At its brand new location on S.R. 56 west of the Tampa Premium Outlets mall, however (which physically is located on Sun Vista Dr. in Lutz), it is called “Culver’s of Wesley Chapel.”

And it isn’t alone. While all of the area being debated by the WCCC and CPCC has either Land O’Lakes or Lutz addresses and zip codes, many businesses in the area identify themselves as being in Wesley Chapel.

“It’s just a mess,’’ Armstrong says.

Where Are The Wesley Chapel borders?

While the current debate is about borders, it originally began, as we detailed in our last issue, as a disagreement over the renaming of the Wesley Chapel Blvd. extension where the extension now crosses southbound over S.R. 56 and continues toward County Line Rd.

The southern portion of the extension, said CPCC member Sandy Graves at the time, needed to represent Lutz-Land O’Lakes, the area through which it cuts. A petition requesting that the name of the southern portion of the extension be changed to Circle O Ranch was presented to the BCC on Jan. 19. But, Wesley Chapel Chamber of Commerce CEO Hope Allen protested, saying it needed to remain Wesley Chapel Blvd., as all of the businesses in the area already call it that and have for years.

Instead of making a decision, the BCC decided to explore the issue further. The Board members decided that defining the borders between Lutz-Land O’Lakes and Wesley Chapel needed to be settled first.

That set off a fact-finding mission by each side, in an effort to buttress their respective arguments. Representatives of Lutz-Land O’Lakes believe their border extends west to I-75. The Wesley Chapel side thinks its western border extends to Wesley Chapel Blvd. So, essentially, the area between Wesley Chapel Blvd. and I-75 is at the heart of the dispute.

The Wesley Chapel Chamber met with Armstrong and his staff Feb. 19, two weeks after he met with the CPCC.

“I think the meeting went fine,’’ said Allen. “I think we got our point across and delivered the message we went to deliver.”

Allen said her group presented a 70-page document backing their claims, as well as a 2005 Vision Report that the WCCC says was approved by Pasco commissioners.

The CPCC countered that its 2003 Vision Report was adopted first, and brought noted USF political science professor Susan McManus to its meeting with Armstrong to help make their case. McManus has co-written books on the history of Lutz and Land O’Lakes.

Armstrong jokes that he is becoming an expert on the histories of the two places, thanks to all of the material that has been presented to him to help settle the dispute, including volumes of McManus’ work, a trove of newspaper articles and even local historian Madonna Jervis Wise’s book on the history of Wesley Chapel (see pg. 1). The book, entitled Images of America: Wesley Chapel, says that Wesley Chapel was founded in the 1840s, and is shown on a 1879 survey map of Pasco County, before Land O’Lakes was established in 1949.

However, the dispute is not over what town existed first. And, even in carefully-researched historical records, there are no definitive boundaries laid out because neither area was ever incorporated, or essentially created as its own city with its own governmental structure.

But, the respective “hearts” of both areas — U.S. 41 in Land O’Lakes and the area around Boyette Rd. and S.R. 54 in Wesley Chapel — are unmistakable, says Armstrong.

“The history points to early beginnings, and we know where the hearts of those communities are,’’ Armstrong said. “But, the boundary in between gets a little fuzzy.”

Pasco County currently only has six incorporated areas — the cities of Zephyrhills, Dade City, San Antonio, Port Richey and New Port Richey, and the incorporated town of Saint Leo.

The rest of the county is comprised of unincorporated Census Designated Places, like Wesley Chapel, Land O’Lakes/Lutz, Trinity and Hudson, to name a few. And, Armstrong says that 450,000 of the 490,000 people living in Pasco reside in those currently unincorporated areas.

Armstrong admits that so many areas without defined borders can create the kind of confusion we are seeing in Wesley Chapel and Lutz/Land O’Lakes, where postal zip codes have changed and there is a myriad of other “boundaries,” which can be confusing.

“Part of the frustration for the citizens who lives in any one of these places is, ‘What the heck, the zip code says this, the Census Designated Place says something else, my kids are going to school based on other boundaries and my voting precinct is somewhere else,’’’ Armstrong says. “It’s been like this for years, and now, it’s coming to a head.”

That’s actually a good thing, he says, because it is being done in the open and publicly. Much of the Lutz-Land O’Lakes anger stems from the belief that past decisions made by the BCC cut the area out of the process to accommodate Wesley Chapel’s growth and ongoing “branding.”

Wesley Chapel Blvd. is an example, according to Graves. It sprouted as a road name for the portion of S.R. 54 from S.R. 56 to Lexington Oaks when the Lutz-Land O’Lakes contingent thought it was going to be Worthington Gardens Blvd., a decision she said “happened overnight.”

The former “Wesley Chapel” placemaker sign was another example cited by Graves. It was put up a few hundred feet west of where Wesley Chapel Blvd. begins, clearly in Lutz’s 33559 zip code. Armstrong said the sign’s arrival “lit a match” in Pasco, and Graves led the fight to have the sign removed — which it was.

“The whole process hasn’t been completely transparent,’’ Armstrong says. “But, this time, it is.”

Both sides have been passionate about their arguments. The claim that the area, its residents and businesses would be much better served if the area was clearly defined as theirs. And, both claim history is on their side.

History, though, may give way to common sense.

“We will collect all of the history from both groups and look at some of the rational (potential) boundaries between the two things,’’ Armstrong says. “There may be a natural feature that divides the two, or a major road. But, it needs to make sense today, and that may be separate from history.”